tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18171692.post7909979277472931596..comments2023-10-03T12:20:53.726-04:00Comments on ¡Cecilieaux!: The Prejudice That's Still OKCecilio Moraleshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05283375962527765787noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18171692.post-12910617307559583922008-07-20T17:31:00.000-04:002008-07-20T17:31:00.000-04:00Oh, now I get what you were saying.As to cannibali...Oh, now I get what you were saying.<BR/><BR/>As to cannibalism, I don't see where the minister made that point, but if he did, another strike against him for not understanding the idea of the real presence or transubtantiation. He can't very well criticize what he doesn't understand.<BR/><BR/>The short answer is that the form of the consecrated eucharist is not meat and blood in the everyday sense, but the real being of the risen Christ.<BR/><BR/>Here's a link to a whole set of questions on the eucharist, including cannibalism (you'll have to scroll down or search -- Ctrl-F).<BR/><BR/>http://www.osv.com/OSV4MeNav/Sacraments/TheEucharist/EucharisticQandA/tabid/498/Default.aspxCecilio Moraleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05283375962527765787noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18171692.post-18207220460880240672008-07-20T15:10:00.000-04:002008-07-20T15:10:00.000-04:00Let me backtrack. I re-read comment on my first c...Let me backtrack. I re-read comment on my first comment. I guess your comment on my first post was not being sarcastic. You were confused because you didn't read it carefully. I said "I was cool on" which means that the point was OK, but I was not that moved.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18171692.post-58182789907528851142008-07-20T15:02:00.000-04:002008-07-20T15:02:00.000-04:00Pardon me if I use another Hebraic metaphor, but i...Pardon me if I use another Hebraic metaphor, but it sounds like you all are arguing about how many angels dance on the head of a pin. Cecileaux. I do see your point about my not giving as much importance to the host as I had given to the Torah; however, please excuse my slowness, but did you answer my question about cannibalism? And please, no more sarcasm. That does not encourage dialog. Just speak slowly and maybe I will get it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18171692.post-42549380161832239652008-07-17T16:08:00.000-04:002008-07-17T16:08:00.000-04:00I didn't disagree very strongly before, but now I ...I didn't disagree very strongly before, but now I do. The formulas are wrong.<BR/><BR/>transubstantiation = how (not whether) the bread becomes the real presence<BR/><BR/>consubstantiation = how and whether the bread becomes the body: it just shares the presence at the moment of reception (Lutheran and Anglican, but Calvinist)<BR/><BR/>One is about process only, the other is about process and result.Cecilio Moraleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05283375962527765787noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18171692.post-81580139424250332302008-07-17T15:14:00.000-04:002008-07-17T15:14:00.000-04:00Pardon me Sir, I beg to disagree, (although this i...Pardon me Sir, I beg to disagree, (although this is of no interest at all for me, just for the fun): I have been taught that yes, it is about the end product and not only the process to attain the result.<BR/> <BR/>Therefore: <BR/><BR/>trans -> bread = body only<BR/>cons -> bread = bread + bodyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18171692.post-3127063928169079862008-07-17T14:14:00.000-04:002008-07-17T14:14:00.000-04:00To clarify G's distinction further ...Transubstant...To clarify G's distinction further ...<BR/><BR/>Transubstantiation is a philosophic theory adopted, from among 21 candidates by the Fourth Lateran Council. The doctrine teaches <B>how</B> consecration works, not what the end product, so to speak, is. In 1214 there was no debate as to whether at consecration the priest confected the body.<BR/><BR/>The teaching that the bread become the body is the doctrine of the real presence of Christ in the eucharist. Luther himself did not deny the real presence.<BR/><BR/>Many Protestants later did and some devised the notions of consubstantiation, memorialism and the Lutheran "sacramental union."Cecilio Moraleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05283375962527765787noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18171692.post-58230999009029377612008-07-17T13:20:00.000-04:002008-07-17T13:20:00.000-04:00"This is my body": transubstantiation (Catholics)"..."This is my body": transubstantiation (Catholics)<BR/><BR/>"This is a bit of bread that I am calling my body.":consubstantiation<BR/>(Protestants of Luther)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18171692.post-89792698365212689242008-07-17T06:43:00.000-04:002008-07-17T06:43:00.000-04:00Hendaque: I'm confused. It was cool, then the Tora...Hendaque: I'm confused. It was cool, then the Torah changed it, but you see my point. Huh?<BR/><BR/>As to cannibalism, that a whole treatise. I would just like to note that, prior to Luther, there was never any argument that you started out with bread and wine and ended up with the Body and Blood.<BR/><BR/>That's the declaration in the New Testament: "This is my body" not "This is a bit of bread that I am calling my body." <BR/><BR/>How is one to read such a statement other than as what it means plainly: that in some way, unexplained to the listeners yet morally and physiologically acceptable to consume, the bread has become his body?Cecilio Moraleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05283375962527765787noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18171692.post-43839888436248354522008-07-16T20:24:00.000-04:002008-07-16T20:24:00.000-04:00I was pretty cool on this until you made the compa...I was pretty cool on this until you made the comparison of taking the Torah out of the synagogue (and I am not Jewish). I can see your point. Even if you don't beleive, why offend your neighbors.<BR/><BR/>But what about the comment on the minster's blog that, if this is truly the body of Christ, "wouldn't that be cannibalism". Don't mean to offend, but I am truly interested in what is said about that.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18171692.post-84385904581498954792008-07-16T10:11:00.000-04:002008-07-16T10:11:00.000-04:00Thanks for this. It’s right-on and was certainly ...Thanks for this. It’s right-on and was certainly in need of being said. Rev. Jeremy Smith got exactly what he needed whether he does anything with it or not.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com